What to do if you’re a SC or PR that wants to marry your foreigner bf/gf?

I’ve previously mentioned my experience as a Singapore Citizen (SC) marrying a foreigner who had LTVP and then PR. Recently, I’ve had a lot of people messaging me about being a SC or Singapore Permanent Resident (PR) wanting to marry their foreigner sweetie and what kind of pass they can apply for.

So, here is a guide on what to do BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED. Idk if the mods are reading this but feel free to sticky.

Yes, it is lengthy and the entire process is difficult to have a TLDR version. Please read multiple times if you must. Google the respective websites if you don’t know the acronyms. I will not be linking to the relevant websites as they tend to change over time.

I may not be able to reply to every single question. A lot of the time, you can find your answers online.

You will also see this term “SC-NR” on certain websites. NR means “non-resident” aka someone who does not have PR or SC. So, SC-NR means a couple where one is a citizen and the other is a foreigner.

WHAT THIS THREAD IS FOR:

• Citizens/PRs who plan to marry their foreigner sweetie and don’t know what to do. This is a rough guide on what you should do. Taking the next step is ultimately up to you.

WHAT THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR:

• Expecting to be spoonfed information for every single step. Google is your friend.
• Spamming questions rating your sweetie’s chances on getting LTVP/PR. If you have read anything below, you’ll be able to estimate the chances. If you never apply, the chances are always zero. Just take the leap, apply, and manage your expectations accordingly.
• Complaining why Singaporean men/women are finding love overseas instead of with their own single citizens.
• Complaining that SG too expensive, too this and that, don’t settle here, just relocate. If you two made your decision to sink roots here, read on. If not, this thread is not for you.
• If you’re a foreigner that is not in a relationship with a SC/PR at the moment, don’t hijack this thread to ask how to find a job here. Do your research online.
• Overall, don’t troll lah.

DISCLAIMER: I am not working for ICA or any immigration agencies. All the experiences I’m sharing are my own and from reading anecdotes on the SG expat forum.

START HERE: What is your foreigner sweetie’s current residency status in Singapore?

• If currently in Singapore on Work Permit (WP), S-pass, or Employment Pass (EP), proceed to Section 1.
• If currently NOT in Singapore and he/she wants to relocate to Singapore, proceed to Section 2.

Section 1

• If currently on WP, proceed to section 1A
• If currently on S-pass or EP, proceed to section 1B

Section 1A

• Before you marry, you MUST apply for approval from Ministry of Manpower (MOM) for permission to marry a SC/PR.
• Failure to do so means your sweetie gets banned from entering/living in Singapore. Yes, it is that serious. No exceptions. No amount of MP appeals or letters will help you and you must relocate to another country altogether due to your oversight.
• After getting MOM approval, proceed to Section 2 about Pre-Approved Pre-Marriage Long-Term Visit Pass Assessment (PMLA) & Long-Term Visit Pass (LTVP).

Section 1B

• No MOM permission needed. Just get married. Do ensure you meet the requirements stated on Registry of Marriages (ROM) website.
• Get married!
• After marriage, it is recommended that your sweetie stay on S-Pass or EP until their company HR says they can no longer sponsor their S-Pass or EP. Then convert to LTVP for them. Proceed to step 4 of Section 2B (look for the **) about LTVP application.

Section 2

– If you’re a SC, proceed to Section 2A.

– If you’re a PR, proceed to Section 2B.

Section 2A

• Decide which date you want to get married.
• Apply for PMLA at least 3 to 6 months before the wedding date.
• PMLA is only for prospective foreigner spouses of SCs. PRs cannot apply for PMLA.
• PMLA is NOT an immigration pass. It only assesses whether the foreigner spouse qualifies for long term stay in Singapore. That is all.
• PMLA only shortens the LTVP processing time from 6 months to 6 weeks.
• Once PMLA is approved, both of you will each receive a physical copy of Letter of LTVP Eligibility (LLE). It is only valid for a year and you two must marry within the LLE validity. Keep the LLE in a safe place!
• If your LLE expires, you re-apply for PMLA again.
• If you break up with your current foreigner sweetie and get engaged to another foreigner, you have to re-apply PMLA again. The PMLA is tied to one foreigner only, you cannot transfer it to another individual.
• Proceed to Section 2B for LTVP application.

Section 2B

• Before your sweetie enters SG, ensure they meet the entry requirements that is listed on ICA website. Different nationalities have different requirements. They should also have the LLE & ROM date documents on hand in case the ICA officer asks what they are doing in SG and want proof they have plans to get married.
• Do ensure both of you meet the requirements for marriage stated on ROM website.
• Get married!
• ******Apply for LTVP.
• You, the SC/PR, will be the sponsor of the foreigner spouse’s LTVP. So, you have to be employed. ICA mainly looks at only your salary to see if you can financially support yourself and your spouse. Other factors ICA can look through are nationality, race, age, education, occupation, how long you two knew each other, etc.
• Please don’t ask me how much you should earn to be a sponsor. ICA will never reveal it but if you search online and read anecdotes from other people for LTVP applications, you can estimate how much you should earn. At least $3K from my personal experience.
• It is preferable that you have at least 6 months payslip and held a steady job for a while. If you just entered the workforce, you can try with just one month’s payslip and letter of employment but adjust your expectations.
• If you want your foreigner spouse to work in Singapore, check Pre-Approved Letter of Consent (PLOC) during the application. If you do not check it, you can still apply for it after LTVP is approved. (It just takes longer time, might as well apply for it together with LTVP lah)
• Once LTVP is approved-in-principle, foreigner spouse will be asked to go for medical check-up for HIV & tuberculosis.
• Both of you must sign some documents about the terms & conditions of LTVP and other stuff.
• Both of you will have to physically go down to ICA to complete LTVP formalities.
• PLOC will be emailed one to two working days later.

What is PLOC?

• Basically, the foreigner with ICA-issued LTVP and PLOC will be able to work in a company without being considered into the foreigner quota, the company no need to pay for foreign worker levy, and company don’t need to pay CPF.
• Do take note there are restricted occupations for PLOC, mainly journalism/media/religious related jobs. The company will then have to apply for letter of consent (LOC) instead.
• Most companies are still ignorant about LTVP & PLOC and you must educate them. It’s mostly the service industry like F&B and retail that love to employs holders of LTVP & PLOC.

I heard LTVP+ is good!

• It’s only for those who have been married at least 3 years to an SC or have at least one SC kid. Being married to a PR doesn’t qualify you for LTVP+, sorry.
• It’s mostly the same as regular LTVP, just that validity can go up to 5 years and you get some healthcare subsidy. (Not as much as PR/SC though)
• LTVP+ holders still need PLOC as well to work.

But what about PR?!

• Be patient!
• If you apply for PR immediately after marriage, confirm you will get a rejection as ICA sees it as a marriage of convenience. You will be wasting $100.
• Wait for at least 2 years of marriage to show ICA that the union is stable, then you sponsor your foreigner spouse’s PR.
• Having a Singaporean baby does increase chances of PR but it is not guaranteed. Do not have a kid because of PR. (I do not have a child and my spouse still got PR)
• DO NOT compare your application with another person’s. All applications are assessed on a case by case basis. Just because some parts of your profile are similar to a friend/family/colleague, you are still not a clone of your friend/family/colleague at the end of the day. Perhaps they have something you don’t (or vice versa).
• Once again, ICA looks at many factors like salary, race, age, nationality, occupation, children, etc…
• ICA will never reveal what they are looking for. Remember that PR is a stepping stone for citizenship. They want people who can settle in SG permanently and sink roots here.
• DO NOT EVEN BOTHER with volunteering, monetary/blood donation, investments, insurance, immigration agencies, testimonials/recommendation letters, or MP letters. ICA does not request for any of them in the application form in the first place. (My spouse did not do any of the above and got PR)
• Volunteering has been abused to death by a certain nationality in the past and they stop volunteering the moment they get PR.
• Immigration agencies have inflated success rates because they only take in clients who have a high chance of getting PR on their own in the first place! They only help you to fill in application form, that is all. If you are literate, you can fill in the form yourself. In fact, ICA treats applications from agencies with suspicion because they think you have something to hide.

But my friends/family/colleague’s spouse didn’t wait 2 years to get PR!

• Is your friends/family/colleague’s spouse a Malaysian Chinese that is already working in Singapore? It is a well-known fact that an employed M’sian Chinese have an easier time getting PR as they are culturally like Singapore.
• If your spouse isn’t M’sian Chinese and has never set foot into Singapore before, don’t expect the same results!
• Just be patient! Or else you are wasting the $100 application fee when you get a rejection for applying so soon after marriage.

I’m overseas and already married to my foreigner spouse for a while and we want to relocate back to Singapore, what can we do?

• You, the SC/PR, should secure a job in Singapore first.
• Move back to Singapore.
• After first month’s payslip, proceed to step 4 of Section 2B (look for the **) about LTVP application.

Female SC/PR here, can I sponsor LTVP/PR for my hubby?

• Of course! As long as you are working in a salaried job and can prove you are able to support yourself and your spouse. Plus checking all the other boxes ICA is looking for.
• I’m also a female SC that sponsored LTVP & PR for my husband, if that’s any consolation. There are plenty of success stories online of females sponsoring for their spouse.

Follow up to the previous question, does my hubby need to serve NS if he gets PR?

• If your hubby has been working in SG for a while, he can apply solo via the Professional, Technical Personnel, and Skilled Workers Scheme (PTS). It is clearly stated that those who got PR via PTS don’t need to serve, only second gen PR males have to serve.
• If you sponsor via Family Ties Scheme (FTS), by right they are supposed to serve. However, from my personal experience and numerous anecdotes online, the husbands are granted exemption from MINDEF.
• Do take note of this clause in the exemption letter though: “This exemption shall take immediate effect and shall apply unless subsequently revoked by the proper authority as and when deemed fit.”
• Unless Singapore goes to war and needs all the able-bodied men, it’s extremely unlikely your hubby (and mine) will be called to serve.
• However, I have not encountered any female marrying in their late teens/early 20s and successfully sponsoring PR for their hubby. If you have, feel free to share if your hubby received NS exemption. The more data we get, the better.

What about housing if my spouse is a LTVP holder?

• If you two are currently childless, look up Non-Citizen Spouse Scheme on HDB website. Or rent. Or stay with your parents.
• If you have a Singaporean baby, congrats, you are now eligible for the Public Scheme, go get that BTO.

What about healthcare for LTVP holders?

• Ask the insurance companies if there are hospitalization/medical plans for LTVP holders. To my knowledge, it is uncommon, and the premium might be steep.
• You can add your foreigner spouse as a dependent in your company’s health insurance.

Takeaway:

• Be humble and do not even assume you or your spouse deserve special treatment to get LTVP/PR. Pestering/hounding/threatening ICA is not something you should do either.
• I get it, you want housing/healthcare subsidies so bad. But remember, subsidies are a bonus in the first place. You gotta show ICA that you are financially able to support yourself and your spouse without the subsidies. I had to get a resale HDB under Non-Citizen Spouse Scheme and I am still a bit peeved I only had singles granted (despite being married).
• Play the SG system correctly and you will be rewarded in the end.
• Good luck!

Working adults who are dating, is wanting to meet once a week being needy?

Met a girl on an app, went out 5 times over a period of 2 months. We aren’t official, still taking it slow and trying to figure things out since we both need quite some time to be comfortable.

I asked her out right after our most recent date but she said she’s fully occupied for all the weekends this month and it’s difficult to meet on weekdays due to her work. To me it stings because I believe if you like someone, you’ll make time for them.

I do like her and want to develop things further but the lack of meet ups is kinda hindering that. Some dates were 2 weekends apart. And i’m just afraid of coming across as needy if I tell her my thoughts. Fyi, i’ve never been in a rs before and only started dating recently.

For working adults who were in the initial dating phase and in a similar “slow” situation , how did y’all handle this? How did you know to continue or move on?

Netizens’ comments

1. She’s not that interested.
   I highly suggest the next time she says “I’m busy”, just tell her “no problem, just hit me up when you’re free”.
   Then don’t contact her any more.
   Plenty of fish in the sea.
2. Y’all are not official and probably not exclusive? So she may be seeing other guys. Or she doesn’t prioritise getting to know you…
3. With women, you need to be clear about what you want. By the 5th date you should have figured out whether she is interested in you and I think you could already ask the question whether she is exclusively dating you or she is still dating others at the same time.
   If you are not alright with how things going with her, communicate with her how you feel and see how she reacts.
   If she does not think that you are the right person for her, just cut your loses and move on.
   Tell her that under no circumstances that you would remain friends with her anymore. It has to be this straightforward. It would save you all the heartache later.
4. you want the real answers bro? Fully occupied for ALL weekends this month and impossible to meet on weekdays due to work? Thats all bs man
   Yes you are right, if they’re really interested in you, they’ll make time. Now dont get me wrong, i dont mean they drop everything else and just focus on you. But come on, no matter how busy you are, at least just a simple dinner will do? Its not so much about what you’re doing, but more of the other party being excited to see you, just as you would want to see them
   Unfortunately for you case, she’s just not that into you, time to move on ba

Got fired 4 hours into my first day

I went through a staffing agency and found a job that seemed pretty decent. Got all the details about the dress code and schedule and pretty excited. I show up 15 minutes prior (thanks Army) and I walk in with an open mind and a willingness to learn.

Get into the office and fill out some paperwork while the ladies in there chat with me. Meet the owner, he was cool but busy seeing as he’s always on the phone. So far all around great environment.

Get out to the floor with one of the office ladies and after the pleasantries she basically tells me since it’s super slow in the mornings to “just look busy”. So she recommended that I sweep the warehouse, too easy. Sweep half the warehouse and get tasked out to do another task.

Normally I’d ask if I could finish the first task before I start something else but no biggie. The guy I got “paired” up with told me people freak out if this task isn’t done a certain way. He proceeds to show me the way to do it and I take over.

Here’s where the “fun” begins I’m 99% done and the office lady brings someone over to me saying that I’d be paired with her. I thought “Aight cool”.

So she asks me what I’m doing and says that I’m not doing it right and tells me to undo the whole thing. Then proceeds to ask if I was sweeping, I replied yes.

She goes off on a rant that that’s not where the broom goes and people don’t put things where they belong. And she spots my small pile of dust/dirt and trash, and yells at me that we’re not allowed to leave a pile sitting in the warehouse. Keep in mind that I forgot all about it (it was out of the way and I wasn’t going to let it sit there).

She made a remark that I’m a “strong young man” and I can lift blah blah blah and she can’t because she’s a female 🤔🤔🤔. Let that one slide, then started a task building boxes and placing items in them and taping them up and stacking them on a pallet.

She tells me two of the other guys in the warehouse can do this super quick, I just gave a Oh type nod. She starts asking why I’m slow, I politely explained to her that I have a leg that’s shorter than the other and a bad back.

She then starts insinuating that I was raised spoiled and that I’m lazy, I was confused because it’s my first day and I haven’t done something like this before.

First break starts and I ask the office ladies if they can talk to her as she’s been rude and expecting me to be lightning fast on my first day. After the break I don’t see her for the next two hours.

Lunch time comes around and the woman tries to get me out of the warehouse quickly. It’s at this moment I get a call from the lady at the staffing agency telling me that I can go home.

When I asked why she told me she’s gotten complaints about me. I was dumbfounded and asked what the complaints were. She was told that I had said I had two blown out knees and I didn’t wanna work. I was absolutely furious and confused why this lady had gone out of her way to get me fired.

Oh the reason why she’s was gone for two hours is because she was filing “complaints”