600k HDB vs 1.1m Condo – 30m/30f

I would like to hear your constructive criticism and suggestions because frankly speaking I’ve spoken to 4 property agents (referrals, friends) and they all seem to be hard-selling me the 1.1m condo idea and say that HDB resale is hot garbage.

It is worrying that most agents do not have any concept of discounted cash flow, IRR or opportunity cost. Their main argument is “Govt will never allow HDB to be expensive and will always keep their prices down”.

I did some math and some things did not feel right with their suggestion.

Background – I’m 30F with my hubby 31m. We don’t plan to live in Singapore forever (maybe migrating after 15-20 years?) – so this house will not be a forever home. But we WILL be moving into this home so rental yield isn’t an option for now.

We don’t mind flipping / buy 2nd house after MOP as long as it makes financial sense. Our priority is maximum ROI, so we don’t really care about convenience or size of the house. It’s just ‘nice to haves’. BTO and EC is not an option – we want to move in asap and are looking at Q1 2024. NO car, NO kids.

600k 4-room HDB – using HDB loan at 2.6% rate.

1.1m 2bedder condo – in heartland areas like Bedok/CCK? – 29% downpay with BSD, and max loan 75% at bank rate 3.2%

We don’t feel comfortable with going over 1.2m for condo because really hard to cough up the downpayment and we will start struggling beyond that price.

My biggest issue is Opportunity cost. HDB downpayment 15% (90k). monthly mortgage 2k.

Condo downpayment (330k) With such a large downpayment and average 4k mortgage/mth + $400 maintenance fee needed for the condo, I always argue with the agents that I could have used the excess $2400 and DCA into S&P500 for average 7% per annum. Using my compound interest and loan calculators, over a 10 year period, the HDB option wins the Condo option by a whopping 300k difference (assuming the S&P stabilises at 7%/year until 2034, average)

My assumptions are also that the Condo and HDB appreciates at 2.5% annually (that is the average annualised RoR over the past 10 years). In order for the Condo option to win the HDB, it has to appreciate at the same rate as the S&P500 – 7% per year.

TL;DR the numbers are all suggesting that HDB is the better option, solely because I can use excess savings to put into the market. UNLESS if the Condo somehow appreciates like mad over the HDB.

PLEASE poke holes in my numbers and let me know if I have miscalculated, missed out something, or maybe you have a suggestion that’s out-of-the-box and brilliant!

Bonus question: Is a <70 year old resale HDB flat better than a 90 year recently MOP flat based on our scenarios? I read somewhere in this subreddit about IRR and that a cheaper, 400k, 60yr HDB flat can breakeven faster than a more expensive 90yr HDB flat, especially if we rent out after MOP

Netizens’ comments

1. Property agents are there to help you look for property that you want to buy.
   As soon as they start mathing and planning your financial journey, property progression plan etc, just walk.
   Never rely on their math for financial advice, because 1% of 1.1m is more than 1% of 600k. And getting you to buy in to their progression plan means selling commission on your current and future properties as well as buying comm for the ‘next step in your journey’.
2. Your numbers are not wrong, but the premise of the numbers are geared in a way where equities will always win.
   Let’s look at your assumed rate of gain of 2.5% annually for real estate, with a risk free yield of 4% and a mortgage is 3.2%, you are losing money every day. There is no scenario where your math would work out for this vs equities when looking at purely a rate of return.
   what you gain from putting your money into real estate is lower volatility. If you’re only looking at the average absolute return and basing your decision on that, the logical decision would be to short real estate and go leverage long on equities in that case.
   Instead I’d suggest looking at it this way. Would you rather have 350k or so be in real estate equity, and increasing year after year, or 90k in real estate. The answer might be different if you have 1million now, 400k now, or 200k now.
   Remember that diversification is always the shield to volatility, and to not base decisions on just being drawn to absolute returns. There will always be people who make fortunes by going 100% on TSLA and AMD, or buying 10 properties all at once at the right time. But assume you’re not them and you’ll need to be protected against either a real estate down turn, a global equities down turn, or both.
3. A 1.1m 2 bedder condo is going to be tiny. Unless you’re going for a very old leasehold unit you’re probably going to be able to get 600-800 sqft including aircon ledges and balcony, probably without a proper kitchen.
   I know it’s not intended to be your forever home, but my husband and I lived in one of these small units for the first 3 years of our marriage and I didn’t like it at all. Couldn’t cook properly in our tiny kitchen, couldn’t get a proper sofa or dining table because of the lack of space.
   The amount of money and the salary bump needed to upgrade to a decent sized condo is a lot and you’ll be locked out of buying a resale HDB for some time after selling, so do consider the fact that you might be stuck for some time.

Me (25F) and my boyfriend (30M) got into a fight because he said he doesn’t want to hear about my emotional baggage

So I was a run away at 18 and I’ve been struggling and moving through things to build a life for myself.

Just recently I saw my dad just walking on the street and it triggered me for some reason and I came home crying my eyes out for the night.

My bf came home and said to me how I shouldn’t be talking like this, how I shouldn’t be acting like this because nobody cares, people will just laugh at me and my situation and that I should be stronger and work harder and then complained about how the dishes and laundry weren’t done.

This is my first relationship I’ve been in and I just want to know if this is normal what he said to me.

Netizens’ comments

• let me repeat it for the people in the back: Is this the way you WANT to be treated? Then who cares if it’s “normal”
• Not at all normal. Really sounds messed up.
• No, not normal. You should be able to expect him to be supportive.

My long term boyfriend broke up with me because I have stage three cancer

I have been dating my boyfriend for 11 years. We were planning our lives together. We are both financially stable just enjoying our lives for now.

Life happened I got terribly sick. He was there for me until we found out I have cancer. I couldn’t talk to him properly for two weeks there I found out he does not want to be with me because I had been diagnosed with stage three cancer.

He told me he does not want to live his life stuck with me after I die. I don’t understand what he meant by that.

I was so heartbroken that I felt like he wasted 12 years of my life. He told me he does not want to live with my ghost.

He is scared that he could not move on from me because people around us knew us together if ever I will die. I don’t understand I feel like he’s just making an excuse to break up with me.

It’s been three months since we broke up I am just so lost right now I don’t understand what’s going on. I am dying and my long-time boyfriend broke up with me all of a sudden.

It hurts so I don’t know what to do.

Netizens’ comments

• My husband abandoned me during cancer treatment. I had to shut down literally so I could focus on myself. I understand what you’re going through. You don’t deserve this, you didn’t do anything wrong. Some people are not capable of going through this for various reasons. I wish you love but most of all peace
• He made a decision to protect himself from the pain of losing you. Unfortunately, his decision feels selfish and leaves you lonely. I’m so sorry… hope you find something better to distract you in this difficult time.

I don’t even want this job

I’ve been at my job for the better part of a decade so far, and while it’s had its ups and downs, it’s been pretty okay.

Until earlier this year when my boss basically twisted my arm into taking a more senior position I told her several times I never wanted.

Now even my days off are loaded with work, I get phone calls about things I can’t answer because I’m not in the building looking at any of the paperwork, and even when I’m enjoying time at home with my husband, I feel an ever-present guilt like there’s more I should be doing.

All I’ve ever wanted was just a job that ends when I clock out, not one that rules my life.

I believe in hard work but this is insanity, all I see when I envision my future is a dark void of doing this until a heart attack or strokes kills me. But the benefits are good…

Netizens’ comments

1. Honestly, I would start putting my phone in Do Not Disturb mode when I’m off the clock. Fuck that.
   It sounds like you need to set some serious boundaries with your employer, and that starts with destroying the expectation that you are always available outside of work, especially if you want to keep the position because of the benefits.
   And if they can’t wrap their heads around that and still refuse to respect you as a person whose time off is valuable and important, I would still refuse to answer work-related calls or texts outside of work and would start looking for another job.
   You have to start doing something now to ensure this turns into a better situation, even if that means doing what you have to do to get out. You deserve work-life balance and to be treated like a human being. You don’t deserve to feel taken advantage of and to feel like you have no time off. Your well-being also matters, and this is not good for your health.
2. You were likely already working as hard as you needed to.
   If you can’t convince your boss to give you your old job back, it’s time to start looking for a different one.
3. Seems like you should talk to your boss about transfer to a less stressful position or something.

Just had an hour long call with my boss

My boss does not know how to have concise conversations. All of my calls with him are at least 20-25 minutes, but this was my longest one yet.

1 hour and 6 minutes.

We were talking about a project that needs to be done, meanwhile he’s wasted an hour of my workday where I could have been working on that very project.

He shows me random meaningless Excel spreadsheets, rambles on and on, repeats himself, and basically talks for an hour about something that could have been a short email.

Is there a way I can politely address this with him? Our meetings are truly pointless and just way too long. At a certain point I just stop responding with anything meaningful, nothing more than “yeah” and “mhm”.

He’s the same way with all of my coworkers and it’s never been addressed. I honestly wonder how he gets anything done – he’s just calling me and my coworkers all day to show us Excel sheets.

How do I (politely, but assertively) tell my boss to get to the damn point? I’ve been at this company for 2 years, I’m 24F and this is my first job.

Netizens’ comments

1. It’s never being addressed because you guys are scared how he will react, and is not a thing to be addressed is just how he is. Is best to know how to manage it.
   The best way to deal with him is by taking over the conversation, ask questions to get to the middle and end of the story, then you say when it’s over if his not getting to the end.
   What sucks about doing the “yeah” and “hmm” it makes them believe that you not understating what they saying. He might get upset at that.
2. Let him know you have a hard stop at x:xx time and you will need to drop for another meeting. Even if you don’t have another meeting, it’s really rude when meetings go over and affect other meetings that now have to start later/reschedule
3. My boss does this as well. He messages me on Teams saying “quick call” and well I say yes because its supposed to be quick but it never is. They can range from 15 minutes to over an hour sometimes. Even worse is when he wants to call like 15 minutes before lunch and the calls take so long. I now just do not answer him or his messages at least an hour before my lunch. He can wait.
4. Tell him you need to poop and hide in the toilet.

F 43, As a reward for taking care of me when I was hospitalized, I let my son’s best friend f me.

My son is studying abroad and my husband works abroad and I used to stay alone in here. I felt sick and got bedridden and I informed my son who then informed his best friend (whom I’ve known for years), who then came over and moved me to the hospital and was with me at there for the whole 8 days that I was admitted.

Then brought me back home and used to come over every morning and stayed till late afternoon to help me around and take care of me. My son couldn’t come even though he wanted to and my husband told me that “it’s a minor thing, take care of yourself”.

With how things were in here, my son asked his friend to stay with me in here over the phone, something that I was open to. And with that, he started living with me in here.

This closeness and affection lead to both of us developing a sort of attraction towards each other. It was more along the lines of showing each other love and affection through our bodies and we got down to f, and he moved in with me to my bedroom.

After a point, we let my son know about this because we both wanted him to be aware of the situation and didn’t want to keep him in the dark.

Surprisingly, he turned out to be supportive and in fact told his friend to ‘assume the role as my “husband” ‘.

The resentment towards his dad and support for his friend came after how things turned out when I got sick. Also for the fact that he trusts his friend and believes I am safer with him around and with me.

A group of Singaporeans came together online to share their gang-related stories and experiences, both first and second-hand encounters, including a former gangster who shed light on why he joined a gang when he was younger.

Netizens’ comments

1. Had a few friends from a gang and they told me that they didnt have to worry about money at all. Few of my friends made abt $400 per day working as a fighter meaning that a headman of his gang wld pay him money to beat up someone.
   The higher the rank of the rival, the more money he would get. Others are vape dealers and they wld easily bring in abt 20k per month. But yeahhh theres risk though as most of them have been into RTC/prisons regularly.
2. Back then, our circle usually dealt with counterfeit items or pirated cd’s. Some of the members got caught others quit the game.
   Was it worth it? Every time. Because for me when I was secondary school, the parents were never home. Usually busy working in the office or went overseas for work.
   Other than my hired caretaker, I was mostly alone at home all the time. Gangs are what kept me social all those times ago.
3. All the gangsters I knew then are currently selling handphone screen protectors and covers
4. i was a combat medic in NS.
   saw a lot of bengs come in for processing during BMT intake. there was the normal full sleeve tattoo guys, guys with neck/face tattoos, etc.
   they talk a big game but they all cry the same way when they keng fever/heat exhaustion and get anal thermometers/drips inserted.
5. One of my teacher came from a gang neighbourhood many years ago. Fights and shouting were way too common, but the worst things are the ones who choose to take their own lives.
   Those usually were the people who borrowed ah long money and gambled away, or pissed off some gang and had their business destroyed.
   People just jumped off the HDB blocks, and the eerie thing was that people in the area got desensitised to it. He said every time it happened, people just shout “superman lai liao” then gathered around to get 4D, toto numbers
6. When I was in primary 6 back in 1998 or 1999, we got called into a school assembly in the middle of the day. The school had decided to use this as a way to inform us of the death of one of our classmates due to gang violence.
   They told us that earlier in the day, he had skipped school to hang out with some older friends that turned out to be gang members when their crew ran into another gang.
   A knife fight had ensued and he had been stabbed to death. They wanted us to know those facts before untrue rumors started to go around.
   They also wanted us to know that they’d be there for us if we needed someone to talk to. Their last reminder for us before sending us back to class was that they cared about us deeply as our families and friends did and that they would never want to go through this tragedy again so we should think more carefully on the company we keep.
   They reminded us that our actions affected more than just ourselves but also those in our lives. As we were walking back to class, I saw teachers and other students trying to fight back tears.
   That day was pretty rough on us all and from what I recall, that kid was a pretty nice guy and our school had no history of such events.
   We were in a decent neighborhood between Choa Chu Kang and Bukit Batok (or at least it was decent back then; don’t know what it’s like now since we moved to the US). I can only imagine how his family was feeling.
7. back in 2006, at ITE, me and a group of our class smokers were smoking behind one of hdb lifts void deck. We were like talking quite loud and laughing then all of a sudden i heard a loud bang behind me then alot of punches and kicking sounds.
   It lasted 10 seconds by the time we went to see what happen the attackers ran off to a taxi that was waiting for them and left.
   i can still recall how they look like from the back but not sure if its the person im thinkin of. the two victims were some sec sch students from a nearby school.
   one was hurt very bad with swollen head and the other not so much. so i told the other boy to go call ambulance asap so he ran off.
   a few mins later he came back with a bunch of his sec school friends and funny that they reacted like “wah bloody cb whos that attacker ah, we go find them and whack em”.
   I was like scolding everyone there, “i ask your friend to call ambulance, you call your hia di to come…”
   the next day we were having class then one of the attacker who i remember from the back view came in to class (he was a new student joining our class) then our group of friends were like gossiping like thats the guy!
   in the end we found out he was in a gang and was forced to be an attacker.
8. Knew this guy from ECA. He killed someone during a gang clash at Marina South. Stabbed the other guy with a knife. All these happened after secondary school. And everyone else found out because it was splashed across the headlines back then. He went to jail for 20 years. He should be out now.

Anyone else have experience with getting cheated on at the very beginning of a relationship?

I just got cheated on by my boyfriend of 2 weeks. Yes, weeks. 15 days. Yes, we were official as in we had the exclusive-boyfriend-girlfriend talk only for him to sleep with his female best friend 2 weeks after.

I broke up with him on the spot when he confessed but he keeps trying to reach out to talk and explain himself. Is this some kind of record? It’s insane to even think about. Does anyone else have a story as insane as this?

I’ve talked to a few friends who said that maybe there’s a chance for reconciliation because it was at the very beginning and it’s not like we were already in love so apparently that somehow makes it not as bad.

I don’t even know. Has anyone gone through this and actually moved past it to still see the relationship through?

I’m not saying I’m doing that, I think I just want to feel less horrible about myself and hear people’s experiences.

Netizens’ comments

1. Yes but if you let them away with it then they usually do it again . If he cheats this early then really he’s not the one for you . You can always find someone else who deserves you . It’s his loss not your
2. I would say that people who cheat once, have the propensity to cheat again. Statistically quite significantly. Given the pain I have just experienced having found out about my ex-partners affair, I’m not sure I would willingly walk into a relationship with that level of risk. You’re lucky you found this out about them now before you became too attached. Remember when people cheat, it’s about an unmet need in them, not about you. Usually low self esteem.
3. I think u should leave him and move on . He didn’t even last 15 days, you’re still in the early stages of the relationship so it won’t hurt u as much . U caught him early it’s a good thing u don’t want to invest time , love and energy in a relationship for him to cheat on u again.
4. At the beginning you’re supposed to be working on building the foundation of your relationship. People are typically on their best behavior at the beginning, so this doesn’t paint a positive picture of what his character is. If this girl where to happen to move to where you are do you think he would hesitate to dump you for her?

Boyfriend (M25) won’t help me (F25) around the house, should I leave him? I’ve been with my partner for 5 years, lived together for 3 years.

When we first started living together, I was at university studying for my masters. During this time I was not working, but i did all the cleaning, shopping, organising etc…then I started working. We split the bills 50/50.

However, over time, I started to get extremely stressed and annoyed with my partner. I work from home, so I do more housework than him anyway, but I do EVERYTHING, whilst he does the dishes once a week and thinks that’s enough.

He won’t help me around the house unless I ask him and even then he either “forgets” or does half a job. E.g. only washing half the pots.

He doesn’t see a problem with never changing the bedding, clothes all over the floor, never vacuuming, plates with mould on them, empty cans all over his room etc….

I’ve spoken about this to him so many times about this. We normally have an argument and then he cleans the house for about 2 days then he goes back to sleeping and gaming all day.

He is so lazy that he won’t even eat unless I make him something. What do I do?

Netizens’ comments

1. Ma’am, that’s not your boyfriend anymore, that’s your manchild son now.
2. It sounds like you’ve told him multiple times that you need help with cleaning, and he’s made very little effort to actually change his behavior.
   How much longer do you want to live with someone who doesn’t take care of himself? Are you interested in continuing to live the way you are now? It seems very clear at this point that nothing about your household stress will change until you decide to change it by leaving.
3. Well, that level of laziness is distressing, for sure. I would agree that he is being most inconsiderate – only you can decide what measure you have to take to either change his behavior or be done. I am curious is he has a mental disorder, considering that he also needs you to remind him that he is ‘hungry’. Do what you need to do for your own sanity – that is most important. If you are not yet at wits end, then explore other options?
4. This is who he is. A lazy giant toddler.
   You can stop washing his clothes as a protest. He’ll soon complain when he’s wearing the same dirty stuff and it won’t impact you one little bit so you should be able to continue as long as it takes before he learns.